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Post subject: DIY SOLUTION for Conectiv power surge/spike crash!
PostPosted: 07 May 2008, 13:08
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This WILL definately void your warranty! And you need to know how to use soldering iron for it! Although, this is REALLY simple.

As an electronic developer with experinence I wasn't satisfied with a such behavior of Conectiv. I've opened it and inspected the pcb. First of all - big up for m-audio! Routing of pcb is GREAT! Except some things like routing signal from mic preamp all around the board :) But in such a crowded board, I believe that was one the best solutions.

The carsh occurs when power spike occurs - it just freeze the controller. So first solution to think of is to increase capacitance of the filtering capacitors in power-filtering part. Huh? No serious filtering for USB power? Yes, according to standards it is not needed, 'coz every PC must have good filters inside. So it's not an m-audio fault.

On the other hand DJ's equip must work as a tank in any conditions... So I've started to search the place to put some extra caps on the board. Bad idea, actually :D It's easier to solder cap on the other side of the board, straight on the USB-connector pins. And that's what I did - I've glued one SMD 220uF 10V (tantalum) capacitor near to connector and with wires around 5 mm solder it directly to pins. Of course you can put not-SMD cap, but I didn't have the small one :lol:

For now everything works perfect. I've tried hard to crash it with plugging-unplugging powerfull stuff into the same socket with PC. Well, IT IS A SUCCESS!

USB pinouts can be found on internet. (and always remember - square pad on pin is ground, or negative pin of cap!) Or if anyone like it - I can post a photo of it, so you can clearly understand where to solder.

NOTICE! ALL INFORMATION GIVEN HERE CAN BE USED ONLY AT YOUR OWN RISK! ONLY YOU TAKE RESPONSIBILITY ON WHAT YOU DID. AUTHOR PUT IT HERE JUST TO GIVE YOU AN IDEA HOW TO DO THAT. USE YOUR OWN HEAD!

Enjoy!


For this message the author yurezzz has received thanks: Ed
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PostPosted: 07 May 2008, 14:46
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Sounds complicated since I dont know much about working on electronics, but what I have done and have had no problems since was to buy a power supply for Conectiv. I did this about a month and a half ago and have had Torq work flawless.

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PostPosted: 07 May 2008, 15:08
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is this power problem, only a problem if you use an external power adapter for the conectiv, or just when you use usb power, or both? i never had this problem, but i also dont unplug any sh*t randomly. does this affect only specific pc"s, if its an usb problem or is every mac and pc affected ???


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PostPosted: 07 May 2008, 17:31
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I was told by an M Audio tech support guy, that a usb port on most computers only handles 500ma of power and Conectiv also takes 500ma of power, so lets say you have an external HD, you may have problems if your external doesnt have a power supply of its own. I dont know if this makes sense but it solved my problem.

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PostPosted: 07 May 2008, 22:37
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Decoupling caps on Vcc and GND on the USB input to filter out voltage transients? Good idea.

edit: From the USB spec...

Quote:
When the A-device provides power, the rise time on VBUS from 0 V to 4.4 V shall be less than 100 ms
(TA_VBUS_RISE max) when driving a constant current load equal to the rating of the device’s VBUS supply
and an external load capacitance of 10 µF (this 10 µF is in addition to any VBUS decoupling capacitance
on the A-device). If VBUS does not reach this voltage within TA_VBUS_RISE max from the time that VBUS
is turned on, this is an indication that the B-device is drawing more current that the A-device is capable
of providing and an over-current condition exists. In such a case, the A-device shall turn off VBUS and
terminate the session. The A-device shall also indicate to the user that the B-device is not supported.


I'm surprised you haven't had over-current problems...

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PostPosted: 08 May 2008, 02:19
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MarcTheLad wrote:
Decoupling caps on Vcc and GND on the USB input to filter out voltage transients? Good idea.

edit: From the USB spec...

Quote:
When the A-device provides power, the rise time on VBUS from 0 V to 4.4 V shall be less than 100 ms
(TA_VBUS_RISE max) when driving a constant current load equal to the rating of the device’s VBUS supply
and an external load capacitance of 10 µF (this 10 µF is in addition to any VBUS decoupling capacitance
on the A-device). If VBUS does not reach this voltage within TA_VBUS_RISE max from the time that VBUS
is turned on, this is an indication that the B-device is drawing more current that the A-device is capable
of providing and an over-current condition exists. In such a case, the A-device shall turn off VBUS and
terminate the session. The A-device shall also indicate to the user that the B-device is not supported.


I'm surprised you haven't had over-current problems...


Why should I have it? Cap make it smoother, and according to your text "10 µF (this 10 µF is in addition to any VBUS decoupling capacitance
on the A-device)" there is no limits for capacitance. This is same for all the electronics. You can add as much caps as you want if its not a high freq or another special case.

Also I forgot to mention, that now bass sounds more softer. Thats probably was because my USB port couldn't supply enough current at the peaks of volume.

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PostPosted: 08 May 2008, 02:24
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can you post pics with that description?

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PostPosted: 08 May 2008, 02:26
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yurezzz wrote:
MarcTheLad wrote:
Decoupling caps on Vcc and GND on the USB input to filter out voltage transients? Good idea.

edit: From the USB spec...

Quote:
When the A-device provides power, the rise time on VBUS from 0 V to 4.4 V shall be less than 100 ms
(TA_VBUS_RISE max) when driving a constant current load equal to the rating of the device’s VBUS supply
and an external load capacitance of 10 µF (this 10 µF is in addition to any VBUS decoupling capacitance
on the A-device). If VBUS does not reach this voltage within TA_VBUS_RISE max from the time that VBUS
is turned on, this is an indication that the B-device is drawing more current that the A-device is capable
of providing and an over-current condition exists. In such a case, the A-device shall turn off VBUS and
terminate the session. The A-device shall also indicate to the user that the B-device is not supported.


I'm surprised you haven't had over-current problems...


Why should I have it? Cap make it smoother, and according to your text "10 µF (this 10 µF is in addition to any VBUS decoupling capacitance
on the A-device)" there is no limits for capacitance. This is same for all the electronics. You can add as much caps as you want if its not a high freq or another special case.

I'm talking about issues upon device plugin.
http://www.epsilonlabs.com/USB_Inrush_I.html

I = Vb/R*e^(-t/RC)

The in-rush current to charge a cap that large would overload the USB power supply unless you have a current-limiting resistor in the circuit, too. You don't have to believe me though, since it seems as though it's working fine for you. A few amps for a couple of microseconds wouldn't hurt, right?

When the device is in steady-state these issues don't matter much.

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PostPosted: 08 May 2008, 03:52
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I see now. You're right with it. But I think that motherboards done by smart guys and they have current limiter, circuit breaker and probably big cap inside as well. And also as you said few microseconds doesn't hurt anything...

As well as I've connected a small motor :lol: to usb port few times before, and windows just says that this device consuming too much current so port was turned off for safety reasons. So there will be no troubles though.

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PostPosted: 13 May 2008, 08:24
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I can't open the connectiv box, any tricks? I have remove the 4 screws and all knobs. Don't want to break my connectiv =)

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PostPosted: 16 May 2008, 10:39
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gujo wrote:
I can't open the connectiv box, any tricks? I have remove the 4 screws and all knobs. Don't want to break my connectiv =)

Remove 4 screews under the rubber feets of conectiv. Then you come to hard part - two plastic parts stuck because of headphones and mic jacks. Try to drag bottom plastic part (black one) away from those jacks using screwdriver or something. And at the same time you need to apply a force to separate two parts of the case.

I'm not sure you can get it, but can't explain it better, sorry.

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PostPosted: 19 May 2008, 15:33
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Hmmmm....I appreciate the tip but surely this should be down to M Audio? I only just bought my unit and it's just crash, crash, crash. :cry:

It's just not good enough.


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PostPosted: 19 May 2008, 18:34
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rob gordon have you treid to plug youre notebook into another circuit ???


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PostPosted: 04 Jun 2008, 12:36
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Hi yurezzz, What about put this cap inside the usb cable (near the conectiv)?
I think that m-audio, may be, could provide this new cable with cap inside the usb plug for all customer that have this issue.

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PostPosted: 25 Jun 2008, 02:23
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strange...
when i hit reply... i brings me back to the forum main folder...

so i did it different to get my post in here...

CAN YOU SUPPPLY PIX or shemes for us, what to solder? or what to do?
Links to the electrical parts you advise etc.

cause we also have the language barrier...
;-)

thanx man

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PostPosted: 04 Aug 2008, 09:34
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renatojsp wrote:
Hi yurezzz, What about put this cap inside the usb cable (near the conectiv)?
I think that m-audio, may be, could provide this new cable with cap inside the usb plug for all customer that have this issue.


Sorry for long delay - I was out of the country. Yes you can put cap inside the cable but as close to Conectiv as you can.

4 others - sorry again. I'll try to post pictures soon.

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PostPosted: 04 Aug 2008, 23:35
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I think a cap in the cable is a far better idea as you'll retain the warranty on your Connectiv and should be just as effective as putting the cap inside.

Pulls up chair waiting for yurezzz pictures...


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PostPosted: 05 Aug 2008, 06:15
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If you decided to put cap into a cable then I don't have photos, 'coz I've soldered cap directly on pcb.

But here is some piece of info for you:

Image
Type B is the one needed.

Then pin number 1(wire will be red) is +5V and pin 4(wire is black) is Ground.

Take electrolytic cap with voltage at least 10V and 220uF capacitance. Carefull with polarity.

Done :)

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PostPosted: 07 Aug 2008, 04:54
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That seems very easy yurezzz, thanks for the pin outs.

What we need now is for someone who knows they can replicate Torq crashing consistently with a normal USB lead and then put this other lead in place and see if it fixes it.

Currently I have not had an issue but everywhere I play I have been able to separate the power for audio and lighting.

Might be worth creating a new thread calling for people to try this out.


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PostPosted: 14 Aug 2008, 09:15
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It seems to be a good idea. I think, I will test it in a few days. My guaranty time is just expired, so there is nothing to lose :-)

So I've to put a cap (with your mentioned specifications) directly to the pin number 1? That's all?

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